Almost four years ago I wrote a post called “I’ll show you my salary if you’ll show me yours.” In it I explained why I declined to reveal how much money I earned:
“Is there no such thing as privacy any longer? Are we required to tell everything? Myself, I’d sooner talk about my sex life than my salary – and I believe that either one would be an overshare.
“Maybe it’s because I’m in my 50s and am thus a couple of generations removed from the new tell-all culture. I was raised not to talk about money and certainly never to brag about what you have.
“… Personal finance is exactly that: personal. No one needs to know what I earn or how much my 401(k) lost in the crash. It’s bad enough that people can Google my home address. I don’t want to give away any additional details of my private life.
Well, last week I had a piece up at Get Rich Slowly that revealed all. “Why I voluntarily slashed my salary” talked about my decision to downsize my worklife after Microsoft fired all its writers on the same day.
That decision represented a salary cut of almost 58 percent, possibly more. Would that be worth maybe eating cat food and saying “Welcome to Wal-Mart” when I’m 80? That’s all I could think of at first, but then I did the math and it’s not as scary as I’d feared.
(For the specifics, you’ll have to read the piece at GRS. Go ahead. I’ll wait.)
These days I may not have a big fat guaranteed salary. But here’s what I do have: determination, a lifelong habit of frugality and the knowledge that at age 56 I need to take my blessings where I find them.
Yay! I’m a corporation!
The job change encouraged me to create my own limited liability corporation (LLC) rather than to continue freelancing as a private individual.
Now that I’ve done this I’m kicking myself for not having done it sooner. If you’re freelancing a lot, you should look into this possibility as well.
The LLC pays me a basic salary of $3,000 per month. That’s a lot lower than my previous job, but for now I’m okay with that. Having control over salary allows me to control taxes: I pay only on the money that the LLC pays me.
I am also not responsible for company debts. This financial protection is vital because I may not ever make as much again as I did in my previous job.
Not that I have any corporate debts; my expenses are relatively low and I pay my small business credit card off in full each month. But you never know what might happen.
‘A sense of calm’
None of us know the number of our days on Earth. But in my opinion, the quality of those days matters at least as much – and probably more – as the quantity.
The reaction over at GRS was universally positive. What made me wriggle with happiness wasn’t the “great post!” sort of comments, but the ones who seemed to be taking the underlying message to heart:
- “Most people I know at work say they can’t afford to retire or quit the job they hate. But cutting off certain expenses and being more money conscious would go a long way in letting them see the possibilities.”
- “I’m trying to find the courage to change (careers). … This post has shown me that making the change is scarier than what is actually on the other side of the change. I already know this, but it’s good to read about it.”
- “This gives us hope that quality of life and how one manages $$ and priorities is your own unique vision, but it still takes work!”
Members of the Not MSN Money Proboards also weighed in. One of my favorite comments is from a reader named Iggy, who said that several times a year she’ll re-read my first MSN Money piece, “Surviving (and thriving) on $12,000 a year”:
“I do this either because it’s the first thing I ever read by/about you, or maybe because I discovered it after the recession, during the time DH and my financial world came crashing down.
“I am so glad you wrote that article, and how candid you were about your finances, especially your income. Suddenly I feel a sense of calm about the fact I haven’t replaced my 40% reduction in income since the Great Recession. It’s going to be okay.”
And that, dear readers, is why I do what I do.
I think it’s going to be okay, too – for Iggy and for me. In fact, I just offered to lend my daughter some money to pay cash for a replacement vehicle after a recent accident. She and her husband have been paying into a “new car fund” ever since paying off their previous wheels, but with the cost of even used cars going up, up and away, I figured she might need a temporary infusion of cash – and why pay interest to a car dealership?
The thing is, I’d been obsessing quietly over building my savings account. As recently as last month, the idea of sending a few thousand out of it would have made me antsy beyond bearing.
But since laying out all the details in that GRS piece, I’ve realized that while I’m by no means wealthy I have everything I need and some of what I want. In short, I have enough. In fact, I have so much enough that I could help my daughter and son-in-law if need be.
Turns out they probably don’t need it, but how blessed I feel to be able to offer.
Will I ever earn more than $36,000 a year? Probably. For starters, my online writing course is bringing in extra income and I’ve picked up some blog coaching clients as well. I’ve got a couple of other irons in the fire that might bring in additional monies, too. It’s likely that I’ll give myself a raise this year.
If you read the GRS piece, I’d be interested in your reactions. Thanks, as always, for taking the time to listen.
Related reading:
Your piece at GRS was awesome and inspirational! It made me feel hopeful and happy to be frugal and more of a saver than a spender! Your the greatest Donna!! 🙂
I hope that frugality becomes the new normal for a lot of people. Not something to be ashamed of, not something to brag about — just normal.
Thanks for reading, and for leaving a comment.
It is my new norm and I love it!
Awesome! New norm!!!! Too bad you couldn’t have a reality show and stay with people and “fix” their money ways!!!
Actually, I suspect many more people are at least somewhat frugal BUT in their own way. They have set priorities for spending (which to me is the most important part of frugality) however much they do or do not match our individual expectations/expierences/priorities.
What a journey. From time to time I still come a cross that short video that I believe was a companion to the $12K article. There you are picking stones out of dried beans talking frugality. And now …you’re famous…quite the journey indeed…
You have been there from the beginning, Jack — I remember your comments then and I’m glad I keep seeing them now.
My Uncle was a sustenance farmer here in WA state. He and my Grandma used to compare what they could live on per year. I remember one year he could live on 2000 a year. When I feel the “wants” for something come on I try to remember this. It slows me down and helps me re-look at the want vs. need realize I already have what I need. It’s powerful to realize how much have already and how content we are.
I think the fact that I’ve never had a large or consistent salary, even now that I’m 28, has helped me realize how little I need. I imagine I’ll never allow myself to get too stressed out about money changes, because my life is money changes- employment/unemployment/underemployment- I deal with it all every year.
I loved your GRS piece. In particular, I love how you emphasize that living frugally doesn’t have to mean living an impoverished life – life’s richness comes from non-monetary sources after all! Also, I like that you gave up a car. I haven’t had a car in 5 years and have saved HUGE amounts of money.
I truly enjoy reading your articles and find them inspiring. Thanks for all your advice and your readers comments I have found being frugal like a game in life! I love the thought of savings pennies that add up to dollars! My first article that I read of yours was the $12K Article and I have been reading ever since. Thanks….
Loved your GRS article and am a subscriber there as well.
I’m a few years younger than you and work in the non-profit arts world, so my income isn’t huge, but like you, I have saved and am in a similar financial situation. I’m not too worried about the future (barring those “Black Swan” emergencies). I know where I tend to spend money and the other areas that have no allure. Like you, I know myself. But I also know what brings pleasure into my life and the cost for that. Most times, it’s no or little cost, except taking the time to enjoy nature, the strength of my body, a conversation with a friend, or something just-picked from the garden. I will spend discretionary income on travel and occasionally a terrific meal. Other than that, frugality works for me!
Thanks for sharing and baring.
I love your “Surviving (and thriving) on $12,000 a year” article. I remember emailing you once asking if it was posted anywhere and you said it was taken down. Did you ever re-post? I used to read it often as well, for inspiration.
I have been looking for it too. I would really love to re-read it. When I read it in the past it was so inspiring and also practically helpful.
I found it through an internet search:
http://money.ca.msn.com/savings-debt/insight/article.aspx?cp-documentid=19293768
Is this the original article?
http://web.archive.org/web/20070113032049/http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/SurvivingAndThrivingOn12000AYear.aspx
Thanks. I have re-read it. Fabulous article!!!
Yes! Thank you for posting the link. I thought it was available only on MSN Money Canada (and wasn’t sure it was the entire piece but rather an edited one).
Yes, it was a wonderful article at GRS and it’s nice you alluded to it over here.
My husband and I are now retired. We made very “simple” salaries during our work life, but we were fairly careful with our money and just plugged away. We now give ourselves a weekly allowance to blow which I’m finding a hard time blowing. I have everything I need and a huge portion of what I just want.
Recently I realized a old high school friend of my son’s is really hurting financially. I was able to immediately write a check to be slipped to him for several hundred dollars. It felt absolutely fantastic. Much better than MORE new blouses would have felt.
Thanks for sharing. It is good to see that money is not the be-all for everyone. We all need examples of folks who are frugal and smart about their choices. Not everyone needs the biggest gas guzzler, newest phone with all those apps or super size TV, we don’t at our house .
We will be retiring in about 3 and a half years, a bit after many of our peers, but we want the cat food we buy to go to the cats as they refuse to eat the zucchini that I grow!
Since when has living on $35K a year become such a stand out from the norm? Been doing it for a few years now. It works. I thought everyone was doing it?
Great articles. Thanks for writing AND sharing.
The thing I appreciated about your big “reveal” is what a great reality check it was. I watch Suze Orman all the time and while I love her “How am I doing?” segments, they also make me cringe. She routinely chides people who are younger than me and who have more money saved because they just don’t have enough. I’m left feeling that I must be really screwed because I don’t have a million or more socked away. But like you I took a hard financial (and otherwise) hit following a divorce and it took me a while to dig out. Now I’m saving, but worry it’s not enough and not quickly enough. You help me remember to keep my goals reasonable and take it easy on myself along the way.
Suze Orman is not the end all and be all of financial wisdom. In my opinion, those “Can I Afford It” and “How Am I Doing” segments are just a vehicle for people to brag and feel smug. I don’t care what she says. Realistically, my husband and I will never have enough saved by her standards. And that’s ok. Not everyone feels validated by driving the hottest current car or sporting a ridiculously overpriced handbag. We quietly save our nickels and dimes and hope we can retire someplace low key and comfortable. I wish there were other financial advisors getting as much media attention as Orman. Donna, I wish you were on mainstream TV. Give Suze the run for her money!
What a beautiful piece. Your emphasis on love really stood out for me. Growing up, we didn’t have much. We had the necessities of course, a roof over our heads, food to eat, clothes to wear, an education. But there wasn’t a whole lot left over for the extras, i.e., dinners out, fancy vacations, stuff. But I don’t ever remember feeling deprived because one thing we always had in abundance was love. My parents often comment on how they wished they could have given us more growing up and I always have to remind them that they gave us everything we ever needed. Love isn’t necessarily “all” you need but it can definitely take up a lot of space in your life that would otherwise be filled by meaningless, materialistic things.
I very much enjoyed your GRS article, and I thought it took a lot of guts to attach numbers to your words. I also remember your article from last year where you positively declared that time does not equal money and that, after your layoff, you were going to choose time.
In 2008 after a divorce I voluntarily chose to leave a decently-paying job that I could no longer stand doing in order to explore other options. Unfortunately, I made many poor financial choices for years after that and found myself in thousands of dollars worth of credit card debt. Then a few years ago I discovered your “Surviving (and Thriving) on $12,000 a Year” article/videos and realized that poverty does not have the final word and that richness can be found in simple living. Slowly but surely I began to embrace my inner frugalista and to want financial security more than any item or experience. Your practical tips on the mechanics of living the frugal life were helpful or at least interesting when I didn’t make use of them. And now your GRS article shows that even approaching retirement doesn’t have to be daunting because deliberately-chosen simple living does not require huge amounts of money. Who needs a million dollars if all of your needs and many of your wants are already met by what you actually have?
Obviously you’d be preaching to the choir if you were speaking only to me, but by sharing your story with others you’re showing them how life can be. Thank you.
Congrats! Slashing my income so drastically would probably send me to the hospital which would just mean more bills LOL
I keep saying to myself “Ok this is going to be the year things turn around for me” but that just doesn’t happen. Oh well. I’ll just keep powering through as best as I can.
Thanks for the link! I liked your info on the cell phone: “a burn phone from the discount store. It costs $2 a day if I use it; otherwise, it costs nothing.” That’s going to be my next phone!
I too have had epiphanies about money, but interestingly, in the opposite direction from yours. I’ve been a dollar squeezer forever, was the only kid in the family who saved her allowance (for horseback rides), and always picked up pennies etc. on the street or parking lot. I’ve been accused of being a miser, but in reality, I was a poor relation: we were given to understand that we were living on Dad’s money, and we had to be grateful. We were worthless except as tax deductions. So, my one ambition in life was to escape and be independent. But my resentment of being less valuable than money inspired an odd penny-wise pound-foolish approach to money. I didn’t want to sell out, I didn’t want to be one of those people who chased dollars instead of living by their values. (Funny isn’t it, that “value” could also refer to money?)
But the effect was to keep me stagnating in “whatever I can get” jobs that paid only enough to make ends meet. I never had the confidence to pursue a career I’d enjoy, because my early attempts had been met with “we’ve too many of those already” responses so often I gave up. Then, in my late 30s, I had the epiphany: why not go for a job I wanted, if I could survive so long on just making ends meet? What would be worse than what I already knew? So I did it. And ironically, ended up making more money than I had ever made when I was just doing it to survive.
The next turning point was when I learned to negotiate for a higher salary. Women are paid less than men not just because men control the salaries and discriminate against women (though I’m sure that some of it was discrimination), but also because they don’t learn how to haggle or negotiate. It was a major moment in my life when I learned to stand up and say “I’m worth more.” How’s that for a transformation? Former poor relation demands more, like Oliver in Dickens.
So what happened? I got more. Then I asked myself whom I was harming by not making more. And the answer was “my family.” If anyone in my family had a crisis, like a serious illness, and needed money, I wouldn’t have been able to help. So that gave me more incentive to negotiate for more.
The proof I had fully graduated came when I applied for other jobs (not because I really wanted to leave my current one), and got an interview. When I returned from my all-expenses-paid interview trip, my senior editor suddenly became urgently interested in improving my pay. He succeeded in getting me a raise so that back in 2000 I was finally being paid over $30K a year, an all-career high for me. I was happy, until the vice-president of our department came storming down to berate me for my greed. It was a true scene out of Dickens: the VP who was being paid 5 times my old salary, and at least 3 times my new one, who was so fat he was almost spherical, berating me because I wanted to be paid what I was worth, instead of just barely scraping by. I said nothing at all to him, because I wasn’t ready to give up that job yet, but I did savor the rich irony of it all. That is when I realized that those in the U.S. who make a lot of money really do believe they are better than those of us who, for whatever reason, make little. I was an uppity serf, who had gotten out of line, and the only reason he didn’t hit me was no doubt, a fear of lawsuits and getting fired. I felt glad I had bested him. His outrage was empowering.
Now, I’m approaching retirement, and I have less trepidation than most, because I know I can get by on much less than I have now. I did it most of my life, and it was okay. What I like about your article is your attitude of saying yes to something as a reason for your choices. That is how I want to be about my retirement: It won’t be no to more money, but yes to higher quality of life. But I’ll still pick up pennies.
Your story is an inspiration. Thanks for sharing it!
Your comment was interesting until you got to the story of your supervisor. I am not sure why you would assume that just because you had one supervisor who was a jerk means that, “those in the US who make a lot of money really do believe they are better than those of us, for whatever reason, make little.” What a judgmental and broad statement to make. Come work where I do and you will see plenty of supervisors who value all of their employees and work side-by-side as peers.
Why, what a pleasant surprise! Thank you for quoting me in your article, Donna. I feel like an online celebrity.
Most of you don’t know this, but Donna interviewed me several years ago after DH and I went through bankruptcy. Well, it will be 4 years this December that our bankruptcy was discharged, and I am here to tell you life does go on. I truly believe in things happen for a reason. We couldn’t keep doing what we were doing-living off credit cards, me not having health insurance, etc. Because of the BK, we were forced to re-evaluate nearly everything in our lives. Since then, we’ve refinanced the house from 6.5% to 3.75%, adopted dozens of frugal habits, and have slowly been increasing our FICO scores.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I’ve got no problem picking up pennies, even while wearing a business suit. 😉
Thanks for all you do, Donna.
Thank you, Iggy. And thanks for posting the MSN Money Canada link elsewhere — I’d forgotten that the piece still exists in the northern ether.
So glad to hear that you and your husband continue to improve your finances. Real-life stories are the best form of encouragement.
I picked up a nickel and a penny in Delta Junction, Alaska, yesterday. It went into the vase when we got home a little while ago.
Thanks for sharing the backstory with readers. Your emphasis on how you took control of your lives and worked to make things better is a big help to those who are mired in financial muck and wonder if they’ll ever be free. Not only does life go on, sometimes it takes turns you could never have imagined.
It’s my pleasure, both posting the Canadian link and sharing our story.
I should also mention I now have health insurance. There is something to be said about going to the dentist for the first time in years. Having a healthy mouth segues into feeling so much better overall.
And, I keep my spare change in a penguin bank, in lieu of a piggy. 😀 I’m almost up to $30 this year and just decided I will donate it via a Secret Santa gift card in December, recipient yet to be decided.
What a nice idea to donate the proceeds to a specific individual. That person will feel blessed indeed.
And yes, dental health is very important to overall health. They’re learning more about the connection all the time.
I have been a fan of your writing from that very first MSN article. I have learned so much from you-gift card discounts, Target hacks, and the unsung pleasures of the scratch and dent grocery store (after visiting our first one, I think we tucked in a lifetime supply of 35 cent bottles of gourmet mustard). I was fortunate to be able to have coffee with you on one of your East Coast visits some years back. At that time, I never imagined that I could consider retiring in my early 60s. While I am not quite in that age range yet, we’re getting mighty close to the point where my husband’s fixed retirement payment from a former employer, our investments, and Social Security could make that a reality. Like you, I am currently in my late 50s and am starting to see friends plagued by health issues. I want to have more time embracing life’s simple pleasures and seeing the world (using hotel points, miles and free sightseeing travel tips that I have learned online). You’ve impacted many people Donna-consider that a hallmark of a life well lived.
I remember that coffee date! So glad to hear that your plans are moving you closer to where you want to be.
May be on the East Coast again in October, if I can get a buddy-pass ticket. If it looks as though I’ll be able to do an S&T meetup, I’ll write about it.
Thanks for being such a consistent reader and commenter.
Would love to see you again-keep us posted!
I don’t have as much to say, but thanks for writing, and I read you and your daughter’s I Pick Up Pennies each day.
My parents showed me what it meant to live a fulfilling life on a small salary. They never made a lot of money, but they also wasted very little. And most importantly, they were always happy.
We’re currently trying to earn as much as possible, but only so that we can retire earlier and enjoy the kind of balance you speak of.
When my mom was dying she fretted that she didn’t have anything to leave us. I told her she gave us more than she’ll ever know — and that her doing so was amazing, given how little encouragement she had from her own family.
Thanks for reading, and for leaving a comment.
Thank you, Donna, for the courage to put numbers in your article even though you had no obligation to do so. The numbers are inspiring. I have siblings that make fat salaries but carry heavy debt and don’t have as much as you do saved for retirement or emergencies. I have to admit I feel guilty that we don’t have more saved for retirement, but considering all the large medical bills I have (dialysis and kidney transplant) I suppose I need to pat myself on the back for being out out debt, except for a mortgage and modest car payment, and putting our son through college debt free.
I suppose the best thing that has come out of frugality is the peace of mind we have experienced all through my medical ordeal. Most of the dialysis patients I know are in dire straits financially. I believe that if I had the stress of losing my home or not being able to make ends meet, I wouldn’t be alive today. It has saved my life.
Wow. Your accomplishments are astounding. I fear that I might have simply curled up and whimpered, “Why me?”
And I love this: “The best thing that has come out of frugality is the peace of mind…It has saved my life.”
Thank you for sharing your story.
MSN Money can burn in hell. I stopped visiting the site since the announcement. Your writting detailing frugal hacks and living on less is more down to earth than Suze Orman’s crap.
I couldn’t agree more!
the GRS article was a masterpiece. It was a masterpiece because it gives hope to those who are in financial dire straights to never give up.
I also live in Alaska, also am among the recently divorced, also am in school. The thing that scares me a bit is that this is a spending time of my life: I am using money earmarked for school rather than taking more years to finish and working more hours. The ever-shrinking numbers in the savings account are very frightening, but I know that those dollars are doing the job they were saved for.
Thanks for all the inspiration and hope.
Glad I can be of some assistance. Where in Alaska do you live? Are you doing distance learning or attending one of the state universities? Feel free to message me at survivingandthriving (at) live (dot) com.
I just read your original surviving and thriving post. Brava! Three comments really hit home for me. The first and most personal was that you won the “lucky to be living in America lottery”. Amen. It’s not good out there in the rest of the world. As a civilian for the Navy, when work gets crazy stressful someone always reminds us who and what we are working for: our sailors, the fleet and America and our energy returns and that is no coincidence.
Because when God wants to be subtle he makes it a coincidence.
Which is the second point. Many coincidences have brought wonderful things and needed things my way. I had been wanting a pair of red flats and had no time to shop. I mentioned it at a softball game and a mother there had a pair in my size that didn’t quite fit her. Voila red flats:) I needed a heater at work because the computer room was cold. Someone saw me in my coat and gave me their extra heater. People are generous.
The third point is keeping a low profile when shopping in the frugal world. I dress low key and simple to go to Good Will and other thrift stores to avoid being a target for panhandlers.
Funny you should mention that phrase: “Coincidences are God’s way of remaining anonymous” was in my original draft but it was one of the things the editor trimmed.
Those coincidences point us in the directions we need to go. Suppose I hadn’t gotten up one morning and gotten a job typesetting and proofreading in Philadelphia? I wouldn’t eventually have met a woman who told me that The Philadelphia Inquirer was hiring news clerks. Then I wouldn’t have met my now-ex husband, and I wouldn’t have gotten to Alaska. Then I probably wouldn’t have become a writer and I wouldn’t have met Liz Weston (we sat next to each other at the Anchorage Daily News). If I hadn’t met Liz, I wouldn’t have gotten the job with MSN Money and I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now.
Most important of all: I wouldn’t have met the man with whom I now share a life, and I wouldn’t be this happy.
Coincidences? Maybe. I choose not to think that way, though.
Thanks for reading, and for leaving a comment.
I’m wondering: does anybody ever attend a time sharing presentation in exchange to a airplain tickets or something else? Is it realy works?
I never did a time-share, but I once did do a test-drive of a car to get a $25 savings bond. I wasn’t yet in the market for a vehicle but knew the day was coming, so why not see how the model I had in mind felt on the road?
I loved the article on GRS. I think you are wealthy. Once you have satisfaction in life without it being dependent upon money then you have truly become wealthy. Most of the time we think of wealthy as a monetary term but being completely satisfied and fulfilled makes you wealthy. You are ahead of most people who are immensely rich and still searching out for something that will satisfy their craving in life. You have already done it!
I agree. Thank you.
Thanks for the link to the GRS piece. I used to read it in the earlier JD days when it was just him trying to figure out personal finances but didn’t like the direction the blog headed and found it much less relevant to me so gave up on it. I also remember the $12,000 a year article and then started reading your work and your blog. I marvel at the twists and turns life can take! Congrats to you for your hard-won, wonderful life. I admire your ingenuity, persistence and work ethic, and appreciate your forthrightness.
Thanks for your kind comments. I agree that Get Rich Slowly has changed a lot since JD sold it, but I’m thinking it’s just growing pains. The entire PF blogosphere has changed considerably since those early days. The recession encouraged a ton of people to start writing about simple survival tactics.
After a few years, so-called “frugal fatigue” set in and people seemed to want to move on from simple life hacks to more complex topics, and/or didn’t want to read about finance at all. Some blogs ceased publishing and some bloggers reinvented themselves. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Really enjoyed both of these articles (this one here and the one on GRS I just finished reading) – way to put it all out there! 🙂
Thanks, buddy. See you at FinCon14.
Hi Donna, the Not the MSN Proboards changed their name didn’t they?
I can’t remember to what and it shows as an error when you click the link in the article.
Thank-you if it still exists and know how one links to it.
I checked and believe that it is now located here:
http://ymam.proboards.com/board/46/smart-spending
Thanks for the heads-up.