Yesterday I had a stimulating conversation with a Surviving and Thriving reader who was traveling with her family. It was a frugal meet-up: We talked for a couple of hours in the play area of a Carl’s Jr. restaurant, since I figured the two kids would be bored spitless by grownup blather about money and frugality.
Both the reader and her husband have names that begin with the letter K, so henceforth they’ll be referred to as “K-she” and “K-he.” (Didn’t get permission to out their true identities.) We talked about not just how to save money but also about the sense of freedom that comes with taking control of your cash.
K-he revealed that initially he was nervous about his wife’s proposal to be a full-time parent, fearing it would deal a death blow to their finances. But now he’s not only in awe of his wife’s mad frugal skills, he’s on board with the whole idea.
He also asked an interesting question: “Why aren’t more people like you two?”
Ideally we’d all consider the wants-vs.-needs binary, right? And then, if purchasing were necessary, work to get the most for our dollars? That way people wouldn’t wind up deep in debt and despair.
Since that makes so much sense, K-he asked why the government isn’t plugging people like Mary Hunt and Clark Howard. (Or Donna Freedman.)
Maybe it’s because our service economy runs on spending, he suggested. If people stopped eating out five nights a week and buying every bright shiny bauble that came along, the recession might come back.
Could frugal lives wreck the nation?
Obviously it’s in the country’s best interests to have a strong economy. Right now, unfortunately, that’s defined as dinner at Applebee’s and weekends spent at the (physical or virtual) mall. Quite a few households depend on those service-economy jobs.
However, I don’t think it’s unpatriotic of me not to buy in (as it were) to a consumerist mentality. It’s not that I don’t spend money at all, but rather that I take care about where my dollars go. (In part that’s because I’ve made a conscious decision to work less and live more.)
K-she feels the same way. She does all the frugal things: cooks at home, looks for free stuff, shops secondhand stores (and Facebook resale groups) and, above all, stays true to the values she and her husband have determined. Travel with their kids is important (and cheap, since he’s a pilot). Time together as a family is important. Remaining debt-free is super-important.
Again, that doesn’t mean they live a life of joyless penury. On the contrary, they’re a pretty happy unit. As are my sweetheart and I, and lots of other people who are cautious with their money.
So why aren’t more people frugal?
K-he really wanted my opinion on that. I suggested two possibilities: media and credit.
We’re bombarded with a constant stream of reality shows, blogs, social media, and “news” stories about celebrities and sports heroes. We see what they wear, watch, eat, drink and, yes, what they endorse or sell outright. In addition we get programs that tell us how to cook, garden, decorate, travel, get married and raise our kids.
In other words, we’re told that we’re doing it wrong if we’re doing it on a budget. It takes a strong adult to resist that kind of pressure, especially if all his friends are following the herd. As for children without strong parents, resistance is futile: Raise a nation of consumers and you’ll have a nation of customers, regardless of whether or not they can afford it.
Which brings me to credit. Back in the NoPlasticScene Era, people like me couldn’t get credit because we didn’t make enough money. Got a card once I was married, but never went hog-wild because I’d been raised never to buy more than I could afford. Now I happily use rewards credit cards for the points – but again, I don’t buy anything I can’t pay off when the bill arrives.
These days, you can probably get a card even if you don’t earn very much. Should your parents not have taught you about saving up for what you want, then you’re likely to look at it this way: “I can get a really big TV and a new smartphone and just pay it off in installments. For $50 a month I can have anything I want!”
What the K-couple and I agreed on was this: Too often we’re buying into a fantasy. They know people who own huge houses and have all the trappings of success yet are burdened by payments. That’s not “winning,” folks. That’s self-indentured servitude.
Buying for the right reasons
As my daughter pointed out in her book, frugality is a continuum. You decide your place on it as you go. The key word is “decide.” Stop thinking about what everyone else wants and interrogate your own needs and wants. Set some goals, then set out to attain them.
To heck with what other people (even your good friends) think is right for you. Who cares if they think your smartphone is so last year, that your wardrobe needs an update, that your paid-for car isn’t attractive enough. Are your besties going to cover the bill when it comes in?
I’m not against buying things. What I’m against is buying for the wrong reasons. Look, it’s your money. You can spend it all on pull tabs and Flamin’ Hot Cheetos if that’s what makes you happy. Just don’t buy those things because all your friends are doing it, or because a Kardashian said so.
Okay, readers, it’s your turn: Why do you think more people aren’t frugal? Has anyone ever given you a hard time about your own money habits?
Related reading:
- Does frugality have to hurt?
- Joy of toys vs. stress of debts
- A satisfied life
- The opposite of obligation
I think you are absolutely right about the media and credit. I would also add that family can really affect frugality too. We add two tenants (in two different apartments) mom and then daughter and her husband. They had very similar issues in terms of frugality. Rent always a week late, always McDonald’s cups in hand, frequent shopping trips and cars newer than ours. If your role model isn’t strong – it takes real effort to change your ways. Family can also cause spending to accelerate for birthdays, holidays, etc. when folks can’t agree on what is “enough”. And we hang out with folks who are like us – frugal but not cheap.
I think we’re taught to give in so easily to instant gratification that we don’t even think about it when we spend the extra money on things we don’t really need. It’s a tough habit to break but once you stop spending mindlessly it gets easier.
Yes, there are definite connections to media/advertising and credit vs. frugality, and I agree with Vicki as well. Family does influence what we consider normal. It can take a lot of effort to break away from those habits. One thing I’ve noticed throughout my adult life is how psychology comes into play with money, budgets and frugality. It’s the small, seemingly insignificant things that can make a person feel somehow inferior, which may (or may not) have a role in society’s “frugal hesitation”.
Example: I’ve got 2 grown sons still at home, so 10-20 yr. old bath towels, as long as they’re not falling apart, dodged my radar. Yet I felt terribly self-conscious about them when my mom and sister came for a brief visit. Why? Because I felt like the towels in my bathroom were ratty. I felt embarrassed by them. As if they’re a reflection of ME. Irrational, but true. I’m now budgeting and looking for a few high quality, plush cotton (NEW) bath towels… even though the old ones still dry us off just fine. I’ll hang nice ones when company comes.
Use some of the new ones yourself.
I will, Nancy. New towels will also be on my Christmas list. 🙂 On the one hand, it seems like such a stupid little thing. On the other, no matter how broke my mom or sister have been in their lives, they’ve always had nice towels in the bathroom, tasteful, nice decor, etc. & I can see how those things affect a person’s confidence/general well being.
I would recommend Turkish towels 🙂
I was in Istanbul last year and loaded up on them because they were so cheap…when I got home I realized they are big, excellent quality and so soft! Even if you get them at Bed, Beth and Beyond (with coupons, of course), they are worth the splurge 🙂
As I’m older than you, Donna, I, too, remember growing up with very little bought on credit. The hive mind was that you had to open your wallet and take out cash when you went into most stores. When the cash was gone, you had to stop shopping. I suppose there were some exceptions for large appliances or furniture. But, generally, you were limited by what you had in your pocket. True, you could get a department store credit card for some of the bigger stores, but most people didn’t. And electronic stuff was in its infancy so nobody was up-up-up grading. I think it was simply much harder to get into debt buying consumer goods a half century ago.
But also, I believe personality plays a large part. Some of us are just born with the idea that one eye should always be kept on the future.
Media and Credit: its not just the commercials, its also the tv shows themselves. I seem to remember reading in People magazine in the 90s about a psychologist who wrote a book about how TV shows could make you feel unfulfilled and depressed and drive you to spend. She said while you are watching some of these shows (she gave the then very popular “Friends” as an example)your eye and mind are taking in the unrealistic surroundings of the TV set. Those 5 characters in Friends-a struggling chef, a massage therapist, a struggling actor, a barely employed waitress — could not have lived in NYC apartments like that, even as room mates. The Psychologist pointed out the mind takes this info in even on a subconscious level and you find yourself thinking, “If they have that loft/furniture/life, why don’t I?” Next time you watch a drama or sitcom look at the settings, the cars and clothes the characters drive. Your mind has been taking that “in” the whole time. And your mind was raised in a culture that says you’re “entitled”. Sure some shows are more realistic (like Roseanne or Everybody Loves Raymond)…but a lot are NOT. When you are getting bombarded with these hidden messages from all angles its hard to resist.
I think that “Friends” really skewed a lot of people’s ideas about Making It as a young adult. Apparently the backstory was that one of the friends’ grandparent had left her the apartment….? But that isn’t something the average viewer thought about, I’m betting. It was more of a “can’t wait to graduate from college and live in New York City with my besties, just like on ‘Friends’! We’ll have great adventures and drink a lot of coffee and go to cool places and it’ll all be so fabulous!”
I remember seeing an episode of “Roseanne” during which a character pulled a can of soda from the fridge. It was the Wal-Mart brand, a subtle reminder that these people weren’t rich. There was also talk of bills and debt and the kids weren’t exactly dressed to the nines. But I think the demographic for that show was different than the one for “Friends.”
Hi Donna. As usual i enjoyed reading this post. More people aren’t trial because it’s “too hard”. I recently went back to coupon shopping at the drug store. When checking out with my under $1 bill the salesclerk mentioned she’d like to shop like me but she doesn’t have the time. I have 2 jobs and make the time. People are lazy and don’t want to work at saving money. It doesn’t help that when tendering coupons we are sometimes treated badly. It’s worth it for me. I did not worry about others anymore.
Aren’t frugal not trail… I do not worry about others not did not worry. Pls excuse typos. Sorry.
Frugality is hard work for some people. And it’s swimming upstream. I think a lot of people find it overwhelming to buck trends, resist the constant onslaught of advertising, and stay on course.
Re: the “constant onslaught of advertising” I think you’re right on there. Companies put a lot of money into advertising because it works! As far as I’m concerned, most media is not worth the exposure to ads – a TV is just a direct feed to a bunch of corporate ad offices, so why would I want to pay to have someone else tell me all the things that are “wrong” with my life because I don’t [insert whatever they’re selling]?
Great post, Donna! What’s really interesting to me is how fascinated our country seems to be by frugality. Look at the popularity of shows like Extreme Cheapskates or articles about athletes living way below their means. And yet, our personal savings rate still hovers around 5%. Are Americans simply too overwhelmed by the everyday challenges of managing our health, keeping our jobs, and taking care of our families? Is adding frugality to our list of tasks one thing too much?
I know for sure that some people are overwhelmed, and I don’t blame them. What I’d like to show them is that money is one of the biggest stressors in life. Taking a little time on the front end to do a few frugal hacks/change some behaviors will save you a lot of stress/overwhelm every single day.
I can only speak of my experience. My mother for one was always charging things. I know for a fact she did this because a lot of times she was jealous of what others had. Also she felt because she worked so hard she deserved to spend her money on things first and bills second. She never tried being frugal in the traditional sense of the word. She wasn’t lazy.. she wasn’t stupid.. and didn’t think it was hard. She just wanted things. Observing this led me to behave the same way for the first 10 or so years of my adult life. But I decided I didn’t like the payments as much as the things I charged. Now I am not as frugal as some. I do buy things. Mostly new things and very far between purchases. But I watch my money like a hawk and hate to part with it!
Here’s my oft-repeated frugal mantra: I save where I can so I can spend where I want. Sounds like that’s what you’re doing.
A woman, 34 with 7 children (oldest 19), threw a $250 birthday for her five-year-old. When I aaked her why she spent so much money on a child that age, skating party, she told me. She did not have enough money for gifts for her child, so she had the party so other people would buy gifts for the child….??? I gently questioned her and she said she just had to do it.
A month later she had a party for the child turning six-years-old. It was a princess party in her church room, but she had to have new princess dresses for her girls and bought several for other children whose mothers said they did not have a princess dress. She had to have the silver plastic tableware to make the party more spectacular. The way the mother talked, this party was for her.
A month later, she told me they were three months behind on all their bills. But, they could get the church to help them out. ???
She chastised me for having nine bottles of Dawn that I bought for a quarter each. She wanted me to let her donate them. ??? She was upset because I had over a dozen bottle of hand cleanser, alcohol kind. When I asked what she suggested, what she thought I should do, she told me to donate it. I got it free and had three more boxes of a dozen bottles. She was rolling her eyes and gritting her teeth, but made no comment.
Just because I thought she could use it, I gave her Palmolive dish washing liquid and hand sanitizer…all before she was upset I had so much.
Her cupboards were bare one day, so I shared food from freezer and pantry. She said she never stocked up because there was always food she could get from the church or somewhere.
When I went to the bathroom in her house, she had seven tubes of toothpaste, all different and open on the sink. She was into “being a good mother” and giving the children what they wanted. I think I was not a bad mother because we all used from one tube of toothpaste.
She just never caught on to my example, explanations, and mini-lectures. I’ve had my share of financial problems, but they were never from overspending.
Those kind never catch on….they don’t have to. As you said, there is always a kind church to bail them out with food or utilities. Unfortunately, the thought that people use those services only because they are in need is not true. Often times, users show up and stay forever as there is no motivation for them to pay for themselves.
(Not implying this of elderly, disabled, unemployed, or otherwise needy folks. But you can tell the difference between the users and the needers with their attitude when they walk through the door.)
I actually had someone once say that she deserved a certain expensive beauty treatment….like the rest of us ladieshad done. The problem was that NONE of the rest of us used those types of services. Her perception was that ALL women have that stuff done.
That’s not a good mother by giving kids whatever they want and getting food from a pantry. That is what is wrong with this society…people don’t take responsibility for “needs”.
She sounds like a “fun” Mom and those kids will suffer when they get on their own or work the system like she does.
I would not donate anything to a family like that because it goes against my morals/values.
Work for What You Want ~ Waste Not Want Not!
She took her kids and their friends to a Chinese restaurant right after she told me she was three months behind on all her bills. Because the kids were bugging her, she thought it would be good for them. I was there. They wasted food and begged to go out for dinner. She cut her eyes at me and said, “We will see.” I don’t think she wanted me to know she was going to do so. Her husband never works at a job for over 6 months, more like 3 months, she said. Yes, they found a large church and clung to it.
It sounds to me like she doesn’t get it….neither does the husband. Poor kids will suffer with parents looking for handouts to make it! I cannot image not working to support the people I love and making this world a better place.
Great post, Donna! When I recently shared on FB some of my frugal achievements, a couple of friends commented how impressed they were but that “it seems like a lot of work .” Well, a whole lot less than schlepping myself to a 9-5!! I think the perceived “time” factor has a lot to do with frugality resistance.
People are “so busy” (look at my FB posts, see how busy I am!!!) that it is “too hard” to cook from scratch, search for what they need used, keep up with the lowest grocery or gas prices, research their online purchases, acclimate to a lower or higher thermostat, etc. So, even though they theoretically would like to do these things, they just “don’t have time” and go for the quick and easy solution (take-off, Target, Amazon one-click, etc.) And since they’re often all relatively small purchases, it’s death by a thousand cuts.
Oh, and my husband came up with a good last line…”and those thousand cuts are bleeding them financially dry.” Isn’t he clever? ?
I also think the whole “we work hard & we deserve it” comes into play a lot. “I don’t want to sacrifice, I work haaaarrrrrrd.”
I sometimes wonder how much time these “so busy” people spend on social media, watching television, going to movies, etc. etc. Freeing up even a couple of hours a week lets you do things that can save serious coin: batch cooking once a month, looking for better rates for insurance or phone, cleaning your own home, setting some price alerts on a price comparison site so you’ll get the best deal on stuff you want to buy, ordering discounted gift cards to save up to 20 percent every time you buy something…
Again: That’s why I’m writing the book! I want to show people that small changes can lead to big changes.
I love that line – “death by a thousand cuts”. It’s certainly true. I think people tend to think “this coffee was only $4, so what? it’s not going to make or break me financially” but if they are getting one every day five days a week well that’s $80 per month that could be better spent elsewhere (especially if they are in debt).
Agreed. What people need to remember is that frugality doesn’t mean giving up fun or giving up treats — it means being mindful about the fun and the treats you choose.
Frugality I think is seen as poor. People don’t want to be poor. They want to live richly and have everything. Little do they know how many rich people are frugal. I recently toured a mansion and they talked about the owners frugality. For instance,instead of buying a new chair they recovered the old (the tour guide acted like this was terrible). He kept track of his finances and made sure dollars were spent wisely. He even figured out if it was worth it to keep the chickens (he decided the fresh eggs were worth it). That tour made me feel so good!
Hmmm… lets see. The frugal person owns a mansion and recovers a chair to save some bucks (or perhaps it was simply a choice of color/pattern)
AND
the tour guide working for him……I’m sure also owns a mansion. Right?
I’m sure the frugal person is dead and probably the tour guide is a volunteer.
Interesting post! I agree that media and easy access to credit contribute to people going into debt. My husband and I were actually poor when we were raising our children, certainly until I returned to work full time. We didn’t have cell phones or the internet 25-30 years ago. We lived modestly (small home, small car) and meals were taken at home except for outtings at McDonald’s where our children played in the playroom and my husband and I could enjoy a bit of time together outside our home. Most young people I know are simply unwilling to make those sacrificies. Cell phones and internet are new expenses that most people are unwilling to live without. On the other hand, housing prices have exploded in the past 20 years in greater Montreal, Canada. Families are purchasing homes in the suburbs, because condos and single family homes in the city are unaffordable. They buy two cars to commute and are constantly pressed for time. These parents are exhausted, having hardly any time left for their families or themselves .
Marie, my son and I watched a documentary on TV last night about the 1980s (a decade when I married and started a family), and it talked about how popular shows of that time, combined with easy credit and the U.S./Soviet race to build more & more nuclear missiles sparked mass consumerism. The idea was, what’s the point of saving for a future that may never come? Shows like Dallas & Falcon Nest with their excesses, more affordable housing, and good paying jobs made frugality fall out of favor. It feels good to appear “successful”. The son in question finished his MBA with no student loan debt and started his 1st professional job at the same starting salary his dad earned in 1984. In 2016, the cost of nearly everything has doubled or tripled. People feel more stressed today than ever, but we never lost some of the financial attitudes of the 1980s and many young adults *know* they can’t afford to live the lives their parents did at comparable ages.
To put a finer point on it, in 1985 I worked as an office manager at a real estate co. in CA’s Bay Area and my DH worked at a major computer co. There’d been a dip in the housing market. An agent wanted to show us a house priced at $139k. It would have been just barely affordable. We passed and today that same house would sell for a quarter million. Starting salaries haven’t risen, and companies are no longer offering the benefits packages once commonplace (full medical, dental, eye with employer matched stock options and pensions) so there’s no way young adults can swing it. Especially not if they have a student loan debt. Even without any debt there’s no amount of frugality to make such a house possible on a 1985 salary. Many, therefore, feel “what’s the point?” The extra effort of frugal living needs to be able to offer them some hope. IMHO.
That should have said “three quarters of a million” (2016 prices), because we were up there a few weekends ago. It was mind boggling. And depressing.
I understand what you’re saying, but I have to agree with Aunt Leesie: The cost of housing (owned or rented) has risen quite drastically and salaries haven’t kept pace. In addition, relatively few places offer pensions so you have to factor retirement savings into the budget. That plus any student loans plus the fact that you might live in an area with bad/no public transit so you’ll need a car plus the fact that you might want to marry and/or have a kid….It’s far too easy to say that “kids these days” just aren’t being smart with their money. Some of them aren’t. Many more are wondering how to make it in the short term, and the future seems impossible.
See also:
http://donnafreedman.com/2011/04/25/this-isnt-your-grandparents-recession/
Yes, Donna… THIS. Late Baby Boomers were finishing college, starting careers, getting married and having babies in the 1980s. Somewhere between babies one and two, many bought starter homes. Our kids are now in their early to late 20s. A huge percent graduate with college loan debt, because their high schools told them it was a normal, expected “investment in their future”. My sons have said they feel betrayed by parents and teachers. DS2 graduates next spring. Neither will have student loan debt. BUT DS1 makes in salary won’t cover basic expenses in a studio apartment or shared 2 BR (in this area), let alone savings. It took him more than 6 months to find a professional job with benefits, and it’s not in his field. He doesn’t go out, party or spend money. His 16 yr. old, inherited truck needs to be replaced. So he lives at home. And he’s not alone.
Just to add an important note: for ANY young worker today, a cell phone is a must. Bosses need to get a hold of you at any time. It doesn’t matter if it’s an iphone on a contract or a pay-as-you-go Trac phone, but it IS essential. No phone, no job.
Oh, and yes, he does pay modest room & board. So will DS2 after college if he still lives at home.
I am less frugal than I used to be because we have more money, less time, and less mental and emotional energy than we used to. So we do the frugal things that are automatic but not the ones that take effort and we spend less time trying to optimize. Sometimes I cringe when we do things that I used to judge people for, but we have the money now.
I think you’ve struck the balance that works for you. Keep it up!
I think people don’t want to feel deprived. I know that was my biggest concern when I decided to quit my high-paying job that was stressing me out. I knew we would have to cut back significantly on our spending, and while I occasionally feel sad about not being able to buy whatever I want whenever I want it, I’ve come to the point where material items don’t hold the same appeal to me as they once did. Plus I’ve found ways to still enjoy life without it always costing money.
Now I prefer spending money on events, vacations, and things that involve spending time with people I care about – basically the things that build lifetime memories I can look back upon fondly. I still enjoy getting a new outfit from time to time but I go to Savers so I’m spending very little. I honestly do not care what other people are spending their money on and don’t feel the need to “keep up” with anyone. It’s a good place to be, but I think it takes time and maturity to develop that attitude. I’m sure when I was younger I felt differently.
Am I as frugal as I could be? No.
My biggest fear, oddly enough, is scrimping and saving for my “old age” and then being one of those folks who drops dead 6-12 months after retiring.
And you hear those stories more often than I care to. 🙁
You can’t take it with you and I am not doing it for my relatives.
And by that I mean if you live the life you want, doing the things you want and when you die, there is still money left that goes to your family, great.
Not scrimping and saving always so that when you die you leave the family YOUR money.
KWIM?
Really enjoyed this post! I think today’s society is so wrapped up in a “Me Me Me” instant gratification that it is hard to be frugal without people thinking you must be going without. I went to a more frugal life about 8 years ago and I must say …. it is great to slow down and enjoy life and feel more in control. I have spent a lot of time reading blogs (especially yours) and learning some great tricks to help me get to where I want to be! So thanks….
Great post! One of the biggest problems, as Aunt Leesie and Donna point out, is that real wages have stagnated since 1979. But prices double every 10 years (according to economic theory). So you are trying to buy or rent a 2016 home with 1979 money. No wonder none of the kids can get ahead.
I do think that Lisa’s comment about instant gratification is right on. I just remember what a wise person once said: “There are no U-Hauls in a funeral procession.”
I’m just curious – by show of hands, how many of you who have kids who are ready for college told them back in the 6th, 7th and onward grades that they needed to think in terms of scholarships? …as in, keeping their grades up?
The idea that unless a kid either comes from a wealthy family or goes into debt, they can’t get an education is mind-boggling. I’m sure I’ll raise a few hackles with this question, but having come from a family who made it clear that 1) college was not optional and 2) they couldn’t afford it so those grades needed to be good left me no choice and funny thing – I got scholarships. In a way, student loans are another form of entitlement and foster the “party today, pay tomorrow” attitude. OK… putting on my flack jacket….
Sherry, you are right. I remember my dad talking about the necessity of good grades so we could get into good colleges… because HE wasn’t going to pay for it! We told our kids that we would pay for a state school. Anything more than that, they would have to work, save, get scholarships — you know the drill. Both kids went to community college, went to the local state school and lived at home and worked. They don’t have student loan debt, and neither do we. Maybe we parents have created this crisis by not expecting our kids to pitch in???
Kate, my sons started working in late high school, have lived at home and went to (nearby) Cal Poly for their college educations. No student loans. That also meant taking public transportation or carpooling with their dad & his carpool buddy, bringing bag lunches to school and leftovers to work for meal breaks, not spending on non-essentials, etc. DS1 graduated high school with a 4.0 and had been in sports, but scholarships at the time were few & far between. Being middle class, we earned too much for them to qualify for grants (FAFSA) until they were each over 21. Scholarships aren’t as available as they once used to be. DS1 graduated Suma Cum Laude (sp?), then went on to get an MBA. Living at home. DS2 is scheduled to graduate next spring. It’s taken longer for the degrees, and wasn’t easy juggling jobs & school. Some professors treated them differently *because* they had jobs and had to let bosses know in advance of projects. No easy answers for any students today. Also, jobs can take awhile to find after graduation… not as many of those now, either as there were in the 1980s.
Sherry, we’ve run the numbers and when DS2 graduates next spring, Cal Poly will have received just over $100k from our household to educate both sons. That’s with all the frugal practices in a comment below and without dorm costs (currently more than $1000 per month) or parking fees (currently $1200 per year). As mentioned below, they did work and pay the bulk of their own tuition, books and fees with our family helping out when needed so they wouldn’t have student loan debt. College costs have exploded. This is NOT the same academic world earlier graduates knew.
Hey, Aunt Leesie – I agree – education costs have gone off the rails; but again, my point was not that it can’t be done if people are careful and instill some solid values in their kids – it was that there actually are a lot of educational scholarships and grants out there but many people don’t bother to look into them or pursue. They assume the “get it now pay later” mentality (same one that leads to heavy credit card debt) as though that’s the new normal. Great to hear DS1 and 2 are both making great futures. Good job!
I got that message and had good grades but not excellent; I received lots of scholarships in the 70’s. My daughter got that message and when it was time to got college for her in the 2000’s – she got nothing from the state of PA or the federal government or the school district, after almost all A’s through all grades. An out of state school, and Sallie Mae loans for both student and parents provided part of the funding. Her limited earnings, the TAP account, and cash gifts for high school graduation provided the rest. I know of others who busted their asses and got little in return.
A lot of people get excellent grades throughout high school, but unfortunately there’s only so much regional and national scholarship money and it won’t cover everyone.
Then again, a lot of private scholarships go begging because not enough people know about them. These days it’s easier to find funding sources thanks to aggregator sites like FastWeb.
Donna,
Your blog is amazing and filled with great tips. I have been reading it for quite some time!
Like many other people, I didn’t start out making much money after college. My parents were frugal and I had my first job delivering newspapers after school when I was 12.
Now that I’m a bit older and make better money, I feel guilty when I spend it. I’m not rich by any means, but I’m making enough now that I save 20% of my income, give money to charity and I have no debt outside my my mortgage. Yet I feel extremely guilty buying sandals on a clearance rack when I don’t NEED them, and I feel very guilty when I take a $3,000 vacation to Europe when I could have saved that money or given more to charity.
At the same point–I had an Aunt who claimed she was poor and never went out or traveled but when she died, she left a 7 figure inheritance. so I don’t want to do that either.
so that’s why I’m not so frugal anymore.
Do you find yourself in the same position? What do you do about it?
I think it’s important to treat yourself as kindly as you would the people/charities to whom you contribute funds. A while back I did a column about this for Get Rich Slowly that might help:
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/07/06/how-to-spend-money-even-if-you-think-you-shouldnt/
Am also thinking that this could make a good follow-up post for my own site. Thanks for the inspiration.
I just read the link…excellent…and I couldn’t agree more.
Even though I only spend about 5% of my annual income on travel…FIVE percent…I feel a little anxious about it. I go out to dinner once a week and get my nails done about once a month. I only buy clothes or shoes at the end of the season if it’s something I want and it’s deeply discounted. I even have gift cards that have lasted three years because I keep using them for clearance items! And yet I still feel guilty about the travel. (I do tend to stay in nice hotels!)
I guess we are all a work in progress 🙂
The word frugal is usually boring to most people and they tend not to think about it so much when they’re out with friends or what have you. It’s all about how you were raised and I believe this current generation of kids will have no clue if we don’t teach them 🙂
I wonder if it would be even a little different if we used descriptors like “smart,” “savvy” or “canny”?
Maybe not. Without the ability to defer gratification, we’re always going to have people who say “But I want it noooooow,” or who — as I’ve actually heard/read — say things like, “But there are no guarantees about tomorrow! I could be dead tomorrow!”
I’ve been puzzled by why people aren’t more frugal. My husband isn’t, he makes more than I do yet seems to never have any money. He leaves lights and the computer on and falls asleep. He just irritates me how much he takes for granted. He’s from an extremely poor family, I believe he’s never going to learn to save for a rainy day. However, he buys laptops, games and toys. Every week he buys himself a steak, I could make a three day meal out of. I’ve just given up and save and be frugal by myself. It’s as if he doesn’t see that if just one of us breaks a leg or gets ill we could loose everything. While I was raised upper middle class, I at one time was homeless, I know how easy it is to fall, and how hard it is to get back up. Just maybe, people that aren’t frugal don’t have enough fear in them. They believe it won’t or couldn’t happen to them.
Cathy, your husband is the poster child for people who have been poor all their lives and hit the lottery. They have a “poor” mindset and will, without consciously deciding, do their utmost to put themselves back into a poor situation. It’s early programming, and they can’t/won’t do anything different unless they become aware of and determined to change that programming.
A tale of two children: both raised during the Depression, both old enough to be aware of the stress and strain of trying to survive it with a family of 5.
Fast forward a couple of decades: one is frugal, pinching every penny, complaining about leaving faucets dripping, turning off lights, buying less at the store. The other becomes irate if a relative or friend turns off a light or TV that was left on, even though no one was in that room, and denies herself little, always well dressed. Guess which one is retired with more than enough, and which one declared bankruptcy? Yes: the frugal one retired well.
We don’t respond to events or problems in the same way. What gets in the way of some people being frugal is a combination of personality, experiences, and fears or desires. Some of us learned little self-control. Others learned it, and hated it like a cat hates a leash. They spend the rest of their lives in pointless rebellion against it. Some are stubborn to the point of self-destructiveness. And there’s my favorite, denial. “I don’t have a problem. I can stop whenever I want to.”
I have caught myself keeping myself from being aware of the debt mounting. I have caught myself trying to live in denial. And I’ve had to reassert self-control. What helps me is that I want to be honest. I hate lies more than I hate the rest, even being disciplined is easier than living a lie.
But the best weapon is a question I’ve discovered lately: “What really makes my life better?” When I’m looking at any purchase or decision, all I have to do is ask that question. It reminds me of what my idea of quality of life is. It saves me from the empty spending that too many engage in, as a reward for the things they thought they had to give up.
People would be better off confronting those regrets, and figuring out how to get those things back in their lives, whether it is more time to oneself, or exploring an interest or a dream. But the first painful step is to admit that their life is so empty, they’re buying to fill it. That’s a hard first step to take.
Relationships to money are about other things, too. They mimic relationships to food, to beliefs, and to family.
I used to disdain money, until I asked myself what my answer would have to be if someone in my family needed financial help. Shortly after, I learned to ask for a raise. I made myself choose a new line of work, even though I had to take less pay for a while. I will probably retire well, but I could also have ended up in bankruptcy. I’m related to both of those two children. I have some of both of them in me. I hated money for what it did to some of my family. I had to make peace with it, though. The reward for that is that I can help friends or family if they need it, and they don’t have to help me.
Quite a story. Thanks for sharing it.
Money is a tool. It has no values apart from the ones we assign. I find that money acts as something of a magnifying glass. If a person who is kind of heart, generous and truly conscious of what they’re doing gets a lot of money, they tend to use it in kind, generous, conscious ways. An a** who is arrogant or unkind or who believes in cheating any given system, upon acquiring wealth, uses in ways that are loudly, outspokenly arrogant, mean spirited and dishonest.
Donna, When I was married I was frugal because I had to be. My husband was sick and I had two small children. I divorced for many reasons, but one of them was my ex’s inability to save,and when I finally faced the fact he was stealing from me too…well! I had to pay him a substantial sum to leave the house on which I paid the mortgage. Barely two years later he is penniless and sick again. Be careful.
My daughter was told she must get scholarships- she did. She now has a Master’s and can’t get a job. Started two businesses. Exciting stuff I’m glad to help with. She’s not making any money yet but working very hard. Hard work lets her stay at home for free. She is not idle. I think she will do well eventually. I can afford to do this because I’ve been frugal.
Honestly, I thank God for all his blessings and I’m so proud of me!.
The guys at the Firestone shop where I get my oil change are the perfect foil for this idea. They always have something that “should” be done to my car whenever I get the oil changed. (I can pay them $65 to change the air filter or I can do it myself for $19.95) When I tell them it’s not in the budget at the moment, their automatic response is: “Just put it on the Firestone credit card”. You’ve got to be carefully taught…………
With such a cavalier attitude, wonder what their own finances look like?